99 replies to this topic

[Big Tin Man]

Change the win condition for attackers to:

Destroy the generator
Destroy half of the enemy mech force

Simple solution. Easy to implement. It fixes the sucide squad solution as it leaves the attacker at a disadvantage by wasting 25 percent of their mechs to take the generator.

And makes sense as destroying a giant cannon while leaving 48 mechs untouched isn't really a way to walk into a planet without... problems.

And most importantly, it forces us to do the thing that makes this fun, blowing up the other guy's mechs.

[EgoSlayer]

Dropping the defending force in half seems pretty extreme, and still doesn't prevent the rush from being the most effective attack.

I'd rather see something like being able to destroy the defenders drop zones to limit their numbers by forcing their respawns to occur slower and further away.

Edited by EgoSlayer, 14 December 2014 - 08:46 AM.

[Cion]

Make the reactor invincible (gated) until one gate goes down.

Change the large laser turrets at the reactor to 6 small pulse laser turrets.

Just a few ideas.

Edit: phone spellchanger

Edited by Cion, 14 December 2014 - 08:51 AM.

[kapusta11]

A simple solution: Use your ******* brain.

[Mystere]

48 Mechs mean nothing if hundreds, if not thousands, face the continued threat of destruction in space.

Or from a different point of view, be these guys:

Edited by Mystere, 14 December 2014 - 08:54 AM.

[Veritae]

Pretty easy to defend zerg rush. No thought needed.

4 mechs in a defense drop deck, loaded with an assortment of pulse lasers, lb10x and srms. When the timer starts, head to the gauss platform with the rest of your team. Shred fools as the lemmings charge your position.

Profit.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Haven't been up against the IS light mech zerg, so I can't really say the best way to stop it, but I have faced the Clan Timber Wolf + Stormcrow blitz a few times now. Targeting legs when they start the push and then going for backs once their attention is on the generator has been working pretty well. Once more people pick up on that I think the blitz will turn out to be a bit too risky, at least without more work setting it up.

Also, from the clan side of things. The traditional laser vomit/poke builds seem to run too hot on rift to really combat these rush tactics. Might be seeing a shift to slightly cooler builds.

In short, I'd like to see where things go from here before we start trying to fix something that is just a few days old.

Edited by Rouken, 14 December 2014 - 09:28 AM.

[Lefty Lucy]

Veritae, on 14 December 2014 - 09:14 AM, said:

Pretty easy to defend zerg rush. No thought needed.

4 mechs in a defense drop deck, loaded with an assortment of pulse lasers, lb10x and srms. When the timer starts, head to the gauss platform with the rest of your team. Shred fools as the lemmings charge your position.

Profit.

I think that's the dumbest thing I've read all day. It's still morning, however, so there's a chance to beat it.

[Veritae]

Lefty Lucy, on 14 December 2014 - 09:26 AM, said:

I think that's the dumbest thing I've read all day. It's still morning, however, so there's a chance to beat it.

Go back under your bridge, Troll. The adults are talking.

[Davegt27]

Saw a smart variation of the zerg rush by the Davion's

On the cold map they attacked the right gate with assaults and heavy’s when the gate started to open there lights JJ over the other gate

We responded and killed them but the Gen took some damage

Meanwhile the assaults had pushed through and knocked out the turrets on the right
2nd wave Zerg rush through the open gate with an ECM Cicada for backup

They take out what was left of the Gen

I call that a good plan

Edited by Davegt27, 14 December 2014 - 09:45 AM.

[Veritae]

Davegt27, on 14 December 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

Saw a smart variation of the zerg rush by the Davion's

On the cold map they attacked the right gate with assaults and heavy’s when the gate started to open there lights JJ over the other gate

We responded and killed them but the Gen took some damage

Meanwhile the assaults had pushed through and knocked out the turrets on the right
2nd wave Zerg rush through the open gate with an ECM Cicada for backup

They take out what was left of the Gen

I call that a good plan

Thanks. That's called the Veritae Maneuver.

http://mwomercs.com/...ritae-maneuver/

[Creovex]

Rouken, on 14 December 2014 - 09:24 AM, said:

Haven't been up against the IS light mech zerg, so I can't really say the best way to stop it, but I have faced the Clan Timber Wolf + Stormcrow blitz a few times now. Targeting legs when they start the push and then going for backs once their attention is on the generator has been working pretty well. Once more people pick up on that I think the blitz will turn out to be a bit too risky, at least without more work setting it up.

Also, from the clan side of things. The traditional laser vomit/poke builds seem to run too hot on rift to really combat these rush tactics. Might be seeing a shift to slightly cooler builds.

In short, I'd like to see where things go from here before we start trying to fix something that is just a few days old.

I ran into a light mech Zerg.... too bad my second drop dec mech was the 6x SSRM Maddog A out at the exacty same time.... Oh did I mention BAP says "Hello"? It was awesome to watch .... I downed 4 myself off the rush... 1 Firestarter, 1 Raven, 2 Spiders... Great tactic, but come equipped and it isn't as impressive...

[Veritae]

Creovex, on 14 December 2014 - 09:48 AM, said:

I ran into a light mech Zerg.... too bad my second drop dec mech was the 6x SSRM Maddog A out at the exacty same time.... Oh did I mention BAP says "Hello"? It was awesome to watch .... I downed 4 myself off the rush... 1 Firestarter, 1 Raven, 2 Spiders... Great tactic, but come equipped and it isn't as impressive...

Exactly. Mindless zerg rush only wins againt a defender that is not prepared for it. At this point there is NO EXCUSE for not being ready for it, unless you have a mouthbreather pug team that just won't listen. In which case, bad times ahead.

[Lefty Lucy]

Veritae, on 14 December 2014 - 09:44 AM, said:

Go back under your bridge, Troll. The adults are talking.

Seriously, there's nothing smart about taking a bunch of short-ranged weaponry that makes it so four mechs can stop a whole team zerg rush. Your "tactic" is based on the cool image of these four mechs cutting down charging players with shotgun type weaponry, but that's just not how this game works.

Veritae, on 14 December 2014 - 09:53 AM, said:

Exactly. Mindless zerg rush only wins againt a defender that is not prepared for it. At this point there is NO EXCUSE for not being ready for it, unless you have a mouthbreather pug team that just won't listen. In which case, bad times ahead.

There's nothing mindless about a well-executed omega push, and even in team-vs-team play there is literally no way to stop an attacker that is focused on the cannon.

[Artgathan]

The Zerg rush is a tactic born out of necessity due to the mechanics of Invasion mode. To fix it (to actually fix it and not just band-aid over it / stop it because you don't like it) the mechanics of the mode need to be altered to make slower attacks viable.

It's a pretty easy tactic to stop if you've got a decent team anyways.

[Brody319]

Or, Triple generator health.
Allow attackers to hit the main gun itself for 30% damage.
Have shooting the generator deal full damage.

Add 2 more turrets with 2 PPCs

zerg rush is dead.

[Menetius]

Lefty Lucy, on 14 December 2014 - 10:42 AM, said:

There's nothing mindless about a well-executed omega push, and even in team-vs-team play there is literally no way to stop an attacker that is focused on the cannon.

That, in a nutshell, is the fundamental problem with Invasion at the moment.

My suggestion? Turn the defense turrets closest to the orbital cannon into AC/20's or SRM6 arrays with Artemis, backed by Pulse Laser/MG sub-weapons for critical damage on unarmored attackers. Hell, you could even give the turrets streaks with BAP, to avoid light mech rushes. Just program them to only fire within their weapons' optimal ranges.

Though if that was done, the turrets would have to be placed in more exposed areas, and the defenders would be tasked with protecting said turrets to help avoid the rushes I've seen.

I know this idea isn't air-tight, but I just emerged from a game that only lasted ten minutes; my team (attackers) won in less than ten minutes because our second wave was full of assaults and heavies, and the defenders were all similarly weighted, from what I saw. Something needs to be done.

Edited by Menetius, 14 December 2014 - 11:56 AM.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Menetius, on 14 December 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

My suggestion? Turn the defense turrets closest to the orbital cannon into AC/20's or SRM6 arrays with Artemis, backed by Pulse Laser/MG sub-weapons for critical damage on unarmored attackers. Hell, you could even give the turrets streaks with BAP, to avoid light mech rushes. Just program them to only fire within their weapons' optimal ranges.

I'm thinking that only hit scan and guided weapons will work well on the turrets. Anything with travel time that is not guided seems to have been avoided.

[Menetius]

Rouken, on 14 December 2014 - 11:12 AM, said:

I'm thinking that only hit scan and guided weapons will work well on the turrets. Anything with travel time that is not guided seems to have been avoided.

Then make a unique pulse-laser weapon only mounted on turrets that deals 20 points of damage, as a substitute for the AC/20 idea. Laser weapons like that do exist in the lore, but only on larger dropships/jumpships. It'd have the range of an AC/20, because its power-supply would be less powerful than the dropship-reactor it's normally rigged up to.

Then again, you don't wanna skimp on protection for an orbital defense platform, so...

Edited by Menetius, 14 December 2014 - 11:21 AM.

[Sandpit]

The "simple" solution is just make the generator indestructible until after gate is down